tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN June 22, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT
>> that's it for 360. piers morgan starts now. see you tomorrow. latoya jackson lived her extraordinary life in the spotlight, now she's starting over. her looks, love life, strained relationship with her family, all of it makes headlines. that's what you know about her. we want to know the real la toya. >> piers, there are certain things i haven't told anyone. tonight, of you and your brother, michael. because of course, the irony,
brother, michael. because of course, the irony, you're starting over, michael can't. he is no longer with us. he is a big figure in this book. tell me about the motivation. was it michael dying that motivated you to write this new book? >> actually, piers, i started to write this in 2008, and i kept writing and kept writing. there was always something that was coming up that prevented me from actually putting it out. i finally got the nerve to put it out eventually, it was on the back burner awhile, then the tragedy happened with michael,
that's when i moved forward because i felt it was something that was necessary. i think it is important for everybody to start over in their life when it is not going properly or the way they think it should go or should be going. if there's problems in their life. however, michael doesn't have and didn't have the opportunity to start over, which is so sad because he is not -- >> i interviewed him once, fascinating experience. >> you did? >> yes. he was smart. >> yes. >> he was funny. he had two voices. one was quite high pitched, gentle voice. when he talked about business, bam. >> oh, yeah. >> down it came. >> and you see the seriousness in him when you talk business and how he really was involved in what he was doing in his career and how he was passionate about his job. >> really focused. he few about this in a way that surprised me. i saw him, he was a camille i don't know character in many ways. i am sure he could be a totally
different michael given the situation he was in with all sorts of different people, a fascinating guy. and i said this before, the greatest entertainer, certainly i've ever seen. >> thank you. do you think if he had lived, would he have ever had a chance to start over? >> that's what hurts me more than anything else, because he could have started over, and now he's not able to start over. it's so important for everyone going through anything in their life to start over, and yes, michael could have started over. my biggest regret is that i wasn't there to help him start over. i feel he probably would have been here today had he started over properly. >> let's talk about you for a moment. how has it been for you starting over? >> it was a very difficult task for me to start over because there were so many different interruptions when i was about to start over and i would have to put everything on the back burner, but i think in everybody's life, we go through different journeys, different paths, and it doesn't always
take us the way we think it is going to take us, but i feel that every life experience that we experience in life is a learning tool, and it is up to us to find out what is the best way to go when we take these paths through life. you learn something in everything you do. and it is important to start over. >> in this book, you are seeringly honest. it is in parts difficult to read how open and frank you are about some difficult stuff. >> you have to be. especially if you're starting over. you have to be honest with yourself. >> i remember this seven, eight year wall of silence you had. >> i was very quiet, very shy, and very controlled. but now things have changed. i am very free, i'm very open. when you start over, you have such a wonderful feeling because you know, this is the beginning of the rest of your life, and you can make it better, and it is up to you to make that better. >> your sister janet earlier
this year, who i love. >> isn't she adorable. >> she said you were the diva of the family. >> janet would say that. >> i do think, and i love her dearly, i think pretty much coming from janet jackson. >> that's what she thinks. i think that, well, actually depends how you interpret diva. janet, more or less, she's on the tom boyish side and i was never that way, she used to get angry when we were younger, my mother would say you have to go to etiquette school. she would say it is your fault i have to go. you act like a girl. and she was defiant, didn't want to go. i have a memory in my head about jan. we took her to the school and my mother was driving and jan was in the back of the mercedes. the minute my mother got out to open the door, she looked my mother out, propped her foot against the door and holds it like you're not making me get out of the car. she was rebellious.
she refuses to go to etiquette and charm school. didn't want that. >> still has that naughty streak. >> but she's a wonderful person, and after all, she did it. she's a lady today. >> how did you get together? you come from what appears on the outside, let's be honest, a fairly dysfunctional family simply because of the ludicrous fame you had to live in for so long. >> right. >> when i talked to janet, i found she was refreshingly normal. >> of course. >> i didn't get a sense of somebody that was a croc pot. i got a sense of a smart business woman, and particular difficulties of growing up jackson. for all of you, it has been tough surviving that period. >> well, i think what it is, piers, when you grow up in the spotlight, that everything is mag ne advertised, and blown out of proportion, and in the jackson's case, it has been that
throughout the entire career of everyone, and there's always this misconception of what people think the family is, the way the family should be. fact of the matter is everybody is quiet, everybody is shy, jovial, loved to have fun. people mentioned the word dysfunctional, i don't see that. i know every family has their problems, i'm sure the jacksons had their problems, but it is nothing compared to what i see on reality tv. it is like people really act this way? we were nothing like that. we're so quiet and shy. it is like well gee. >> are you oddly? the tragedy of michael, are you oddly closer now than you have ever been do you think? >> i would love to say yes we're closer than we've ever been, but it is interesting, piers, because when a loved one in your family, michael was the first that we've lost, and it hurt so badly, and everybody wants to be on the same page, and it's not always that way.
i think it was very difficult when it came to the plan of what to do with him and the burial. everybody had different opinions and we had to vote on which way we were going with it. so you want that togetherness, want people to come closer. yes, it is closer in a sense, but at the same time, no, it isn't. which is really sad. >> i want to show you a clip when you were young performing with some of your family, see what your memory is when you see it. >> hey, you guys are going to find out a replacement, the jackson girls. [ applause ] >> how's it going, pip squeak? oh, baby, give me one more chance.
>> when i watch that, obviously the end there you get to the jackson brothers and off they go, do this amazing thing. a little part of me, i'll be honest with you, it feels slightly, you know, i've got three children, like you all had your childhood, your innocence taken away from you. you didn't have much choice. you got pushed into this world. and that's what you knew and that was your life, and you didn't have a normal existence, many of you. >> well, this was our life, and that is what we knew and that's all we knew, and how could someone rob or take something away if you don't know anything else. >> when you look back on it now, do you feel bad? >> when i look back on it, it was fun times, wonderful times. i wish i had known a little more about the world because then you could control your life better because you know what you're about to face. however, no, i have no regrets when it comes to that. i look at those brothers, and it is just amazing to me, i used to watch the girls fainting over them, i was like what are you
fainting over, the paramedics, it was like come on, they're just guys. i couldn't understand that. you grew up with the music and with them, and to me they were nothing special. they weren't special at all. for outsiders, they were screaming and oh, you're so wonderful, germane waived at me. >> he is my brother. what are you getting at. >> it is funny. but i am not taking it for granted. but when you think about how people look at you when you see yourself totally differently. we see ourselves as very normal. people are like i can't believe i touched you and things of that nature. >> do you ever wish you hadn't gone into show business? >> i didn't want to go into show business. i wanted to go into business law and to go to school to be an attorney. eventually i got off, went to school awhile, my father took me right out. he said no, you're going to sing like everybody else, you're born to entertain, this is what you're going to do. when he did it, i didn't want to do it, but i loved it.
ever since he has done that, i was like wow, this is great. i kind of like this a lot. >> janet had a bit of a sweet view of your father, he is an incredibly tough guy, disciplinarian, i don't think he did it for his own gain, but because he believed in you as children. he thought the only way you make it big is if he kept pushing, pushing, pushing, and very hard, particularly for the girls i think to deal with that. >> he was absolutely right. you must remember, he was a disciplinarian, and my father at the same time, he had that drive. he saw in his children how big they could be. he saw the talent. if you don't make people and children of course, if you don't show them that if this is what you truly love, you must really, really go headstrong with it, and my father was there to make sure everyone did what they needed to do as far as show business was concerned. he would rehearse and rehearse them and they became perfectionists. look at the result today. i thank him very much.
if it wasn't for my father, we wouldn't have had the jackson 5, the jacksons, michael or anyone for that matter. >> after the break, i want to talk more about your dad. want to ask if you ever thought it was an abusive relationship, then i want to talk about what is clearly an abusive relationship, the one you had in your marriage which makes for horrifying reading. right now, go to priceline for a sneak peek at recent winning and better than ever! hotel bids to find where you n save up to 60% on hotels. * we'll even email you other people's winning bids, so you'll know what price to name. *á with new hotel bid alerts, from priceline.
>> no, and let me tell you why i say no to you. because my father instilled the music in us that was already there, but he made sure that we knew what was right and what was wrong when it came to that. he was a disciplinarian as i said earlier. i also feel when you're young as children, you don't understand when your parents are trying to discipline you, you feel it is wrong, they shouldn't do this, this way and that way. >> did you ever get spanked? >> yes, i got one spanking. as you get older, you realize he was doing it for the best of us, that's what he was doing. but you must also remember, piers, during the days and that time, people did spank children. today it is totally different, they don't do that. >> i think janet said he did hit her once with a belt or something. >> i got one spanking. >> what she found more abusive in a way seemed to me when she said to me the really sad thing, she tried to call him dad or daddy once, and he stopped her and said no.
my name is joe. i found that as a parent odd to listen to. and i think she -- i got a sense that she wished she had been able to have a normal father in that respect. >> he was a normal father. i think probably -- no, i don't know the experience with the joe and the dad part with her. >> what did you call him? >> joseph. we all do. that's what we all do. >> everybody else would call their father dad or daddy. >> taes what we called him, and we called our mother mother. >> do you still call him joseph? >> of course, yes. >> if you called him dad, what would happen? >> i don't know. he would probably be shocked. >> you look exactly like janet. you know. you look exactly the same. >> that's funny. don't get me laughing. >> how do you get on with him now? >> very well. i love my father very well. i am so happy i am older and able to see things differently than i did when i was a bit
younger. so i understand. as you get older, i don't have children, but when you start with nieces and nephews and begin to raise them, watch them, you understand and realize why your parents did the things they did. >> do you think parents are a bit soft? >> i think parents are too lenient with kids today. i think we truly lost the respect factor from children today. children have absolutely no respect in regards to elder people, elderly people. i would love to see children much more respectful. >> i think that's completely true. >> of course it is. don't you find that true? >> i do. and i think the discipline thing is an interesting subject. noi with my kids, kept inside all day, they become monsters. a bit of fresh air, playing sport, whatever it may be, they get it out. when they are really aggressive, you can't just sit there, watch them terrorizing people. kids can be like that. >> how are they with you, do they speak back to you? >> sometimes, i don't like it.
>> what do you say when they speak back? >> i have strong words. >> really? >> yes. >> do they learn from that? >> i am like you, i am for respect, particularly for the elders, think it is important. >> if you don't teach your children respect, how are they going to go out in the world and respect other people. you must teach them this so they can understand. you give them respect, you get respect back, and that's so important. >> does your mother ever have a kind of slightly complicated relationship with the way your father treated you all or did she go along with it completely? >> my mother was very quiet, very shy, very quiet. i don't know if she went along with it or not because she would never really say. sometimes she would say oh, that's just joe's way of expressing his love or showing his love, which my father, don't get me wrong, he's a very loving person. >> actually tells you he loves you? >> all the time. >> but he didn't when you were younger. >> when we were younger, no, no.
>> do you remember the first time he said that? >> i think i told him first. i said joseph, i love you very, very much, and you mean the world to me, i want you to know that. and piers, i had seen a man that i had never seen before. he became like a humble boy, his eyes got watery and the whole bit. >> really? >> yeah. you must remember something which is very interesting. i don't care who you are in life, everybody is looking for love. everybody wants to be accepted. so when my father heard those words, you have to remember, it was almost as if geez, i have never heard this before from any of my children. this is wonderful. it made him feel good. made him feel like he was someone. after all, we are all children, no matter how old or young, we are all children. i always become analytical. if someone is mean to me, saying something negative, i say what went wrong in their life, what went wrong in their childhood, why are they reacting the way they're reacting.
i began to study my father, watch what he was doing, watch his ways, learn a little more about his parents, and that taught me about him. i learned that my father was a loner, his mother wasn't there for him. he was the one that raised his brothers and sisters, he's the one that took care of them, that walked five miles to school every day. >> never had love himself. >> never had love himself. >> didn't know how to express it. >> you can't give away what you don't have. if you don't have it to give away, how can you give it away? but he did have love in there, he just didn't know how to express it. now he does. >> did michael ever say i love you to joseph, do you know? >> yes, he has. he did say that to him, yes, absolutely, absolutely. it was something that we all said, we shared that with our mother all the time. with my father, it was probably in the past, maybe 10, 12 years. yeah. >> he is a fascinating character. >> he's a good guy though.
>> history will be kinder to him than past history has. >> yes, it will be. i think it is a bad misconception of him. and when you don't know how to handle that misconception, it makes it sometimes even more difficult. but as you come around and see the love and embrace the love and embrace it the way he's embracing it, he becomes a better person and i see that. >> take a short break. we will come back and talk about what i was going to get to in that segment, fascinating about your dad, and that's the marriage with jack gordon who emerges in a horrendous manner in this book. i want to talk about that.
back with latoya jackson. some of the most difficult stuff to read in the book, it is a powerful book in many ways, is about your manager, who became your husband, jack gordon. i have to say, he comes off as a complete monster in this book, and it sort of prompts the question when i talk to you now, you seem intelligent, quite worldly wise. how did you ever get together with a man like this in the first place? >> it started with my having to go to japan and my mother wasn't
able to go with me, and she asked my father if he could go with me to japan, and my father wasn't able to go with me, so they sent jack gordon, my father sent him, gordon, to go to japan. once we got in japan, he took my passport, told me i wasn't going back. that was it. >> he seized control of your life? >> yes, seized control of my life. and you have to remember, back then, i was -- i didn't know what i know today. i was a gentleman hoef a witness. i live by the model of bad association. if you have it, i did associate only with jehovah's witnesss, you trust everybody, you believed what they say, thought they were honest with you. he took my passport, never allowed me to go back home. >> how did you feel when he did that? >> i couldn't understand why. i said please, can i have it. it was no, no, and no. and from there he went to germany, and just you're not going home.
you're not going back home. but why. i couldn't understand why. it was one of those situations that i wasn't strong enough to say i'm not going to listen to you, i'm not going, i don't want to do this. i just went along with it. >> where were your family in all of this, why weren't they steaming in to save you? >> my family was there, they would call, see how i was doing. he would monitor the calls, let me speak and say certain things. it became a very complicated relationship, very difficult. the control factor, you must remember, piers, this is important about women, that's why i say it is very important to start over, is that it starts very slowly, very gradually. they start saying you're going here because you have to do this. and i just got this contract for you to do this, you have to do this. >> it makes a little sense. >> it does. >> you are being sucked into something from which there's almost no escape. >> you're being sucked into something, there's deadlines and things you have to make according to him, and you're beginning to believe this,
because it sounds true, but at the same time in the back of his mind, he has a motive, he has a plan. you don't know that because you're not part of that plan, but you are the plan. >> you say he forced you to marry him. >> yes, absolutely. >> even then, you tried to get away. >> then i tried to get away. i tried desperately to get away at that point and i wasn't able to. >> did you love him sf. >> i walked out. no, i did not, we were manager and artist. he would always say do you love me. and i would say my answer would be i love everybody. i love everybody. that would be my answer. >> when did he first start being physically abusive to you? >> it was shortly after we were together. it started, piers, little terrible things, answering the phone. you don't answer the phone. squeezing my hand, then twisting and turning it. why are you doing that to me, because you don't know, you don't understand what's going on. i said okay, i won't.
reaction, phone rings. then there it is again. you don't answer the phone. all of a sudden i told you not to answer the phone. there's a slap. then you're thinking oh, no, i better obey. you start obeying. >> at its worst, how bad was the violence? >> well, it put me in the hospital. >> what was he physically doing to you? >> he was beating me. i think the worst beating that i -- there were so many, i am trying to -- one of the worst beatings i endured was probably when we were in italy, and i asked for an anullment. i said it has been six months, can i get an anullment, he said i could. and he said listen, i own you. don't you understand that, i own you. he took my hand and started beating it on the corner of the desk in the hotel room, table and the desk. and i remember falling back and coming back and i go please, please, don't, he kept beating my hand on the table. i recall trying to get over to
the telephone to call downstairs to the operator. and i managed to do that, i called the operator, and you're in italy, and nobody came up. no one came up. nobody came up or anything. the next day, he sends in the oh pair, she knocks on the door and asks me, she says la toya, i would like to pack your clothes, we are leaving in an hour or whatever time it was, i said no, it's okay, i'll do it myself. she said is there anything in can get you, and i said well, yeah, can you get a bucket of ice for me, please, leave it at the door, knock and know you left it at the door? she said sure. she did that. and i waited for about three minutes to make sure she wasn't around, and i opened the door to get the ice, as i reached down, there she was, standing, and piers, first thing came out of my mouth, i don't know why i said this, i can't even tell you
to this day, she looked at me, she went oh, because my eyes were all black and everything, and i said i slipped in the shower. i don't know where that came from. >> classic excuse. >> i said i slipped in the shower. i was protecting him for some silly reason. she didn't say anything. she said can i come in now and pack your things? and i said yes. and she packed my things. we left. he totally ignored me. he never spoke to me in the limo, at the airport, when we got back to london, i was going to my home in london, didn't speak to me there. when i got there to the home in london, she asked me are you hungry, i said a little, i'm okay. she said why don't we get something to eat. i said you know i can't do that. she said yes, you can. you can do whatever you want. she said i have the key, you can go. she was allowed to have the key to the home. i wasn't allowed to have keys or anything whatsoever. >> was that the moment you broke free?
>> no, it wasn't. we walked down. we were living next door to the hilton hotel, i can't think of the name of the hotel at the moment across the way. we were next door to the dorchester hotel. they were having some kind of event at the hilton. photographers were there, they happened to get pictures of me. i had on my sailor hat and glasses, my glasses fell to the ground. i said oh no, picked them up, put them on like this, then they got my wrist. and this is when they were -- they just surrounded the house for about three days, i can remember or more, and i couldn't go out, he told me you did this purposely. you did this so they can see this. i said i promise i didn't. yesterday you told them i beat you. i said i did not, i never said a word. he said okay, i'll fix that.
i said please, i promise you. he said you want me to go to jail. he says you know i am on probation. i said no. and at that time the media kept calling and calling. he kept making up stories. he gets on the phone and goes i never touched her, that's plastic surgery. she had surgery. and the reporter said oh, really, they said surgery? and all of a sudden they were like what is all the bruises on her wrist, that's not surgery. where is this coming from. that's when he knew he was caught, but piers, he would not allow me to go see a doctor. my head was boiling, i could feel something shaking in my head, i didn't know what was wrong with my head. >> hold it there. i want to continue this after the break, find out how you finally got away from this guy. >> sure. >> that will be the inspiration to all of america, how you finally got away. >> oh, yeah.
back with latoya jackson. we left before the break with you talking about this abuse from jack gordon, your husband. i mean, he was such a control freak, he alienated you from your family, he made you pose for playboy, which you didn't want to do and i think to this day you regretted that. the worst thing for me as a journalist i remember this happened, when he made you do that press conference about michael when you went along with all of the allegations against your own brother at a time when michael needed support of his family. >> absolutely. >> that was a despicable thing for him to do. >> it was the lowest of all, the lowest. and that's one of the things that -- >> do you app solve yourself completely? people reading the book, you had this before, you say you can blame somebody to a point. >> right. >> when you denounce your own brother in public. >> right. >> part of you has to take responsibility for that. >> you have to take responsibility, and i do take responsibility for it.
i must tell you, but at the same time, i have to tell you that if i didn't do what he asked me to do, he blatantly told me and others, other loved ones, that he would kill michael, and i believed him because i believed the actions. so when he says you get up there, you read this and you say this, prior to this allegation about michael, there i was on television saying oh, my brother is wonderful, he would never, ever do a thing like this, thinks despicable, then gordon gets this idea, is that what you're saying? no, you're going to change that story. it was like no, no. >> how did michael react when you did that? >> i don't know how he reacted at the time. i know how he reacted later, when i talked to him about it. he and i had a conversation, and i told him, i said i need to talk to you, michael. i want to tell you what exactly happened, what went on. he says la toya, you don't have to. i said no, i want to. he said la toya, you're my sister, i know you, i love you. i know you would never, ever in your heart do a thing like that. piers, when my brother said
that, that made me feel so good. >> how did you finally get rid of him? get out of his clutches? >> i got rid of him. i was in new york. and he had taken my passport and everything, wasn't allowed to have my passport. i begged for it that night. he wanted me to do a pornography film. he says you're doing it. i said you destroyed me. he said you're nothing now. you're doing this film. you're going to do the sex scene with cute guys, he went on and on what i was going to do. i says don't make me do this, he says you're doing t he was getting money for it, quite a few million for this for me to do this, and i said i can't do this. i won't. so i decided that i was going to leave him. this was the straw that broke the camel's back. i said this is it. i have to leave. he promised me if i left he would kill me and he would kill michael.
i called my brother on the phone. i picked up the phone when he got in the shower. >> which brother did you call. >> first jackson i saw, my brother randy. he said you're lucky i never answered the phone. and immediately he got my mother and father on the phone, randy, just go get her now, i was in new york, they were in l.a., they were so happy to hear from me, and i was so nervous, piers, the entire time. we were in a hotel. he was in the shower. they had the red lights onto know somebody is using a phone line. i kept thinking i can't talk if he looks at the phone and sees the red light on, he is going to kill me. i waited for randy what seemed like forever. finally randy knocked on the door, he and my cousin came and piers, i left with nothing. had on my pajamas before that. >> when you got out, how did you feel? >> i felt like there was freedom but i was nervous. he was still in the hotel, i thought he would be lurking and i didn't know how to escape the
guy. we got in the car, got on the plane, and i felt good. it was the best feeling in the world. yet there is still that part of me, piers, that told me you're not safe yet. you know this man, you know you're not safe. >> you never did go back to him. >> never went back, piers, never. >> when it concluded with him, how did you feel when you heard he died in 2005. >> when i heard he died, i was very, very hurt. i felt sorry for his family. and everyone that i knew that knew me was rejoicing. i said you can't rejoice over someone's downfall. >> when we come back, we will talk about michael and the day he died and talk about all of the conspiracy theories and whether you still believe that he may have been murdered.
is kenneth nelson fall guy >> i was at home when i heard that he had passed. >> hear in los angeles? >> here at home in l.a., yes. >> how did you hear? >> my father had kept calling and telling me to get over to his house because i love about two or three minutes away from him and to go over to his house. he heard something was wrong with him, that he was sick or something of that nature. i said okay. then he called and said i need you to go now. he said no, go to the hospital instead. he kept calling me. and it was my mother who initially said to me, my cousin, when i decided to go to the hospital, i was talking on the phone, i said please, tell me which way, how is he doing, because i didn't know he had passed, and i kept saying how is he doing, please tell me. he would never tell me. i said why can't you tell me. i heard my mother in the background say who is that. and he said it is latoya.
she said give me the phone. she grabbed the phone and screamed as loud as she could, he's dead! and when she said that, i was driving at the moment, and i almost wrecked the car, ran into people. i just -- everything went limp. i couldn't do anything. i got weak and started begging people on the street to drive me to the hospital. just please, can you take me to the hospital. i couldn't do anything. and it was so sad. and i got so nervous, i rushed into the hospital, and they took me upstairs to where my mother was, my mother there, and i walked in the room, and there she was sitting, and all the kids, michael's kids were sitting on her lap just crying, just crying, and it was the worst thing i had ever seen or experienced in my life. i didn't know helpless feelings in the world that you have no power, no control over. and you don't know what to say.
and i didn't know what to say. and his kids kept crying and crying and crying. and i said, "mother, is it trou? is it true? " she says yes, it's true. going up there one of the nurses said you can relax. your brother's still with us. and then i got happy. and then i saw them all crying. yeah. and i didn't know what to do. >> did you see michael? after he passed? >> yes. yes. i went in right away. the kids demanded to see him. we were in the hospital. and they kept saying, please, aunty la toy yeah, we want to see him one last time". and they asked the nurse, "please we want to see him one last time. can we go see our daddy? " i looked at the nurse. i didn't know if this was appropriate or not. and she said yes, i want them to see them. i said are you sure? she said yes, because this will be closure for them. they were crying the whole time. we all went in to see him.
and michael's three kids and myself and the nurse came with us and we all held hand and we all prayed to him and we all just said all of our special thanks to him, what he's done for the world and for his family and how much we loved him. and brushing his hair, wiping his face. and just -- i just kept kissing him and telling him how much i love him. and we all went around separately saying little things to him. and the minute it was done, the nurse felt that it was enough for everybody to be there, which was quite awhile. the kids walked out. and they never cried again. i never saw them shed a tear after that. >> really? it's like they had shed all the tears then? >> yeah. it was closure. it was closure for them like she said. >> how do you think he died? you've been quoted as saying you believe it may have been murder. do you still think that? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> why are you so sure? >> i will never ever think differently. first of all, michael told me they were going to murder him. he was afraid for his life. >> who were going to murder him? >> the people that were involved
in his life. the people that were controlling him. this book "starting over" is about my life and michael's life. it's the parallel between the two of our lives. we share that same life where people come into their life, move their way, in control, manipulate, control your finances, everything you have and you must do what they tell you to do. that's what michael was going through. and he new that everything that was happening to him was not kosher, it wasn't right. and it disturbed him greatly. they controlled michael. they controlled everything that he did. the people that were around him. this whole show, the whole bit going from 10 to 50 shows that he didn't agree with. he wasn't capable of doing. they knew he wasn't healthy enough to do those shows but yet they said he was fine, they took out insurance on him. yet it was time to go to lloyd of londons for another insurance. the day he gets there, he's supposed to go there and go directly to the hospital. but michael never makes it there because they knew he wouldn't be healthy enough. yet they put their own doctor in who said michael -- he passed with flying colors.
he's in perfect health. michael was not in perfect health. he was very, very fragile. very thin. and the coroners i will tell you -- this was not an o.d. the coroners told me immediately that the only drug that was in michael's body was the drug that was administered to him that night. and that was it. he was totally clean. >> do you think we'll ever find out the truth? . i'm going to make sure we do. >> we're going to take a final break. when we come back i want to talk to you about how the kids are doing now, how the family has dealt with life after michael.
la toy yeah, how are the kids doing now, michael's children? >> the kids are doing very well. thank you. thanks for asking. they are very happy. they enjoy their life. they enjoy just doing what they've never really had a chance to do. because my brother kept them really, really just confined to the house and home schooling and the whole bit. now they're going to -- well, a private public school, of course, but it's public as long as you're not at home. >> your mother's been bringing them up. >> yes. >> i mean, you know her better than most people. >> yes. >> so what job is she doing do you think?
>> she's doing a great job. fabulous job. i see the kids all the time. i'll see them in two days of course, again, family day. we'll see everybody again. i see them all the time. i try to go to my mother's house every sunday and visit the kids and see how they're doing. i speak to them all the time and we text back and forth. and just call each other and see how they're doing. making sure their grades are fine and they are doing good in school and they are. >> if you had the chance to talk to michael again, what would you say to him that you never had a chance to maybe? >> i would tell him that i'm sorry, that i wasn't there to help him to start over. i wasn't there to prevent this from happening to him, what took place and what happened, this control. had i think i been there, i think he would still be here today. i know he would. because i wouldn't have allowed it to happen. i'm -- there's so many things that i could say, that i'm sorry that he's no longer with us,
that these people took control of him and took advantage of him because he was a kind, meek person. a very loving person. and people preyed on that. >> i mean, awful that it was that michael died -- i remember being so shocked. a huge fan of his, i had ticket to the first show in london. was excited by seeing him again. i can never imagine him as an old man somehow. >> i know. >> michael. in a funny way, the kind of immortalizing that went on after he died, awful that it was for the family, i think for his memory when all his records went back to the top of the charts, i had a 10-year-old -- have a 10-year-old son, my youngest got really into michael jackson music after he died. he was on the radio all the time. i liked that, that at least the legacy was protected. because there was a time when you thaw the michael jackson legacy might be tarnished forever. >> yeah. as long as i live, as long as you live, your children, your grandchildren, your great great grandchildren, you will never ever ever find an entertainer as special, as talented, as loving and as caring as michael